iOS 7 look

General Discussions about ND1

How do like the look?

Light looks ok
2
50%
Dark looks ok
1
25%
Better, but needs improvement
1
25%
Yawn!
0
No votes
Worse, gimme back the old buttons!
0
No votes
Still bad; use the button I'm responding with
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 4

iOS 7 look

Postby oliver » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:48 pm

While we're patiently waiting for Apple to approve the v1.5 update, here're a couple of screenshots that show the iOS 7 look:

ND1_Light.png
New default look
ND1_Light.png (115.97 KiB) Viewed 6528 times
'

ND1_Light_Programming.png
With the keyboard up
ND1_Light_Programming.png (192.58 KiB) Viewed 6528 times


ND1_Dark_Graph.png
The new dark scheme
ND1_Dark_Graph.png (108.8 KiB) Viewed 6528 times
oliver
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Re: iOS 7 look

Postby Prairie » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:01 pm

Oliver,

Thanks for posting images on v1.5. Anxious to get download from App Store. As you know I have strong feelings about a "clean" GUI. At first blush, both black and white versions look like great improvements over 1.4! Look forward to seeing in iPhone 5.

Here are some comments:

- Can't tell, but it looks like the keys are larger. If this is the case, this was my biggest request. With the smaller keys on the ND1 vs. 42s, I find myself mistyping about 50% more often. It's usually not hitting the key but hitting the wrong key. Assuming keys are larger thanks!

- Why show the iPhone battery, network icons? Takes up valuable space. At least provide an option to hide.

- Both white and black keyboards look very clean. I like getting rid of the red operator key. Much improved. I think both should have a different color for the secondary key functions. The black would look great with gold and the white with the same purple you used to highlight the soft keys would look good.

- The Editor Screen looks great. I never liked the way the old Apple keyboard jarred its way onto the calculator. In iOS 7, this looks much better.

- Really like the change to 'var' scheme from wagon wheel. It's a huge improvement. Much clearer. Also, 'mode' is much better than null set character. I was never a big fan of the hieroglyphic symbols. The new 'var' scheme is also much more modern than the HP STO-RCL.

- One key I would go back to the HP style, would be to change the up-arrow to 'Enter'. Even though not totally consistent with the down-arrow to drop from the stack, 'Enter' is so much more intuitive. Also, aesthetically, 'Enter' fills out the large key more fully. (It's the first key I always change.)

- Another key I don't find very clear is the swap key. It looks like some sort of command key. Here too I think the old HP x<->y key was better. Another idea might be to use an up/down arrow, similar to the drop key, except switch one arrow up.

- Also, any reason not to use +/- instead of the current change sign key? At first glance, it reminds me of a not-equal sign. (Another key I change right away.)

- Finally, in terms of key placement, I would consider moving Enter key all the way to the left. I find it easier to use there. Also has the added benefit of logically locating swap and drop keys next to each other.

Once again, thanks for all of the improvements!

When do you suppose Apple will release the update?
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Re: iOS 7 look

Postby oliver » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:48 pm

Glad to hear you like the look better.

Sorry to say but the keys aren't larger. However, when expanded, the keys *are* larger. However2, calc expansion is the one feature that broke with iOS 7, which I didn't manage to repair fully for this release. You'll have to wait just a little longer for a point update (v1.5.1). Expansion has been, and still is in v1.5, working on iOS 6, in case you want to try sooner and have access to it. (iOS 7 was the first iOS update that actually broke the calculator. All tapping and calc expansion, specifically.)

Here's a screenshot for how the expanded calc looks like. You can compare the button sizes if you put this next to one of the screenshots above (on your screen).
ND1_Light_Extended.png
Extended calc; bigger keys
ND1_Light_Extended.png (175.49 KiB) Viewed 6517 times


The app now paints into the status bar. I put in an extra line with the editor example to not have the letters clash with the "Carrier" text. In fact, I'll have to address this. I may move the angular mode and current folder name up into the status line, but we'll see. At any rate, it's no longer taking away space from the app.

If you want to convince me of a color scheme, Photoshop it, post it, and we'll see.

Glad to hear you like the "var" change. I'm hoping to have removed one obstacle to people liking the app.

I hear you about Enter but am still enamored with symbols. It's an easy change and once calc/tool sharing is enabled improved designs may bubble up.

I absolutely want to change the swap key but didn't find a Unicode char with entangled arrows or anything better for this function. I cannot just plop an icon on it; it has to be a Unicode. If you find a good one, let me know!

Didn't understand your question about +/-. So, it's changed to "+/-" (3 chars) instead of the single unichar for plus-minus. Reason was better readability. What symbol/chars are you suggesting? I played with "(-)", too, but ended up liking "+/-" better.

Either way, an easy local change. As is moving the Enter key to the left. You realized that you can very easily do this by re-ordering the Enter key in Definition? (If not, try it!)

Updates usually take anywhere from 3-10 days. I guess they're getting many right now, as iOS 7 broke stuff.
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iOS 7 look

Postby Prairie » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:40 pm

Oliver,

ND1 v1.5 looks fantastic on my iPhone 5s! I love the white skin. Really, really sharp looking.

Just playing around with it. Here are some first impressions (and issues):

- As I mentioned, UI looks very slick. Very elegant.
- The extra row of keys is a great new degree of freedom. Look forward to trying them out. Previously, I felt constrained in terms of adding/moving either permanent keys or soft keys. Now much more flexible.
- As I've mentioned before, I really like new 'var' scheme vs. the wagon wheel. Much more intuitive.
- The iOS 7 keyboard nicely integrates with the expression editor.
- Very nice to be able to pull up source code on soft-keys by holding down soft-key. (I know you told me I would like this and I do.) Better than adding a second level of functionality.
- Also, call to Help on pre-defined Menus doesn't leave on stranded.
- Graphing and mini-browser work as expected. (For me they didn't on my 1.4 on a iPhone 5.)

Issues/Questions:
- If I am editing an expression. For example, I hold down Demos.scribble to get the source code, how do I get escape out? 'Enter' gives a Syntax Error and I can't find anyway out except to close down.
- You may have said this was coming in next release, but I can't hide the Tabs section. (Definition, ND1, Help, My Data).
- Silly questions, but what do the: 'args' key and the 'small-bucket' key on the bottom left do?
- Is there a way to hide the iOS 7 header (with time, battery life, etc)? Having access the the full screen is a big improvement, but the header distracts from an otherwise elegant App.

Oliver, this is a very big upgrade. Congratulations on all of the effort. I will spend more time with it, but wanted to give you my immediate impressions. Well done!
Prairie
 
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Re: iOS 7 look

Postby oliver » Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:50 pm

Prairie,

Very glad to hear you like the new look!

Thanks for all the nice words and detailing what works for you.

Also thanks for reporting the editor bug. I confirm there's something very strange going on with editing "scribble". It insists on a syntax error on line 7, no matter what edits you make. My blood un-froze after I opened for editing and entered 50 or so other JS and RPL programs (incl. all the other demos) and none of them had that problem. I agree that there should be a way to cancel. Right now, there isn't. Except you can Select All, Cut, and then enter. (With this particular program I had to press the drop key after Cut to have it enter.) Only JS programs are syntax-checked when you enter; the point is that nothing with syntax errors should ever be pushed onto the stack. Because once stored, these progs wouldn't run.

If you're looking for code to play with, my recommendation is to check out the many JS and RPL code samples in the "Project Euler" downloadable folder. They're all short (a few lines, typically less than a screenful) and they show a variety of things. (Incl. how to get outside data into the calc. Quite a unique point, I think.) Also, if you register on http://projecteuler.net and enter the result numbers, you get to see the code in other languages. ND1 is doing quite well as far as compactness of the solutions.

I'm not happy with the code samples in Examples. (Which sucks, because that's where one would go first...) They're largely outdated.

Yes, hiding of tabs is disabled under iOS 7 right now, because of an issue. The functionality broke with iOS 7 as you know. I spent some hours on this and got it to work fine visually, except no key press events arrive at bottom row keys after an expansion. I hope to fix it this weekend. I promise the update that re-enables this isn't far away. (Also, I increased the size of the buttons in the expanded calculator on iPhone 5 screens, as there's more space now. Acknowledging the size issue with keys, I'm eager for people to get their hands on that.)

There're no silly questions, only silly designs that leave people wonder... The 'args' key puts on the stack the last arguments taken by the last function you executed. If the last function took no args, it will do nothing. The small bucket was my hope for a finally readable/understandable "space" character. You can use spaces when you enter vectors/matrices instead of comma, and you'll may need it when entering stuff w/o the iOS keyboard (in one-line programs and for strings). Yes, there should be a visible cursor when the iOS keyboard isn't up. It's surprisingly hard to do this on iOS.

The status cannot be hidden right now. I take hiding it as a good suggestion. Won't be a problem to make it available as an option under Settings.

Cheers.
oliver
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iOS 7 look

Postby Prairie » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:05 pm

Thanks for suggestions to look at Euler for code examples. I've done a number of their problems in other languages, so it will be interesting to compare code style as well as performance under ND1, particularly with the iPhone 5s.

With all the new keys, I'm going remap the keyboard to my personal taste. Will edits survive upgrades, even as a beta tester?

By the way, I had several other "Syntax Error on line 7" occur. I was cutting and pasting some sample javascript code. In most cases, deleting the final '>>' allowed me to 'Enter' the code and escape out of the edit mode. When in Program Mode and enter '<< >>' the prompt is not inside the brackets, but outside.

The ability to toggle off the iPhone header will be a nice touch. Thanks.

Another useful setting option would be for higher volume settings. The m48+ has this feature and its nice to really hear a real distinct key-click.
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Re: iOS 7 look

Postby oliver » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:20 pm

Oh, you did some PE problems already? Then I'm really hoping you will have a blast revisting some of them with ND1. (I spent more time than I care to remember trying to solve PE probs on ND1. I have a local folder with, like, 100+ not-yet-released or partially-solved implementations, also for a few in the 300s.) Your 5S is probably a good 4x faster than the speeds reported here: http://forums.naivedesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=270
(While speed isn't the big deal of course--having a solution is--it's still posing an extra challenge for ND1. But notice how short and sweet some of the solutions are in comparison to traditional languages.)

Ok, I'm a bit confused about this line 7 error. If you have steps to reproduce, a new bug under Bugs would be appreciated. No << and >> should be in any JavaScript progs.
JavaScript code should be entered simply as an anonymous JS function, like so:
Code: Select all
function(m, n) {
   // code
  return result;
}


Important: no function name.
Any number of params. However many you specify will be taken from the stack and fed to your function.

So, going up all the way with the volume on your phone, the key click is still too quiet? I'm not setting any volume in the app, just triggering the official key click sound to play when a key is pressed.

About key edits. You should be ok. I'm not planning keycap edits for the next update (1.5.1), and the one after that, likely called 1.6, will feature two whoppers as previously mentioned: The CAS, and a new "calculators" section that allows you to build your own calculation tools and share them. You'll want to restore to pick up the CAS menus then, but you can save your own custom calculator before. Eventually, you'll want to merge your key pads. (You'll be able to do that on your computer--not key by key in the app.)

Oliver
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iOS 7 look

Postby Prairie » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:35 pm

Made it through about 90 problems in Euler. Was learning Clojure. Will definitely play around with it on ND1.

Regarding the line 7 error, I was trying to embed javascript in a RPL <<>> call. Error was probably legitimate. If it occurs again, will try to reproduce steps, though I had it pop up several times.

The volume is probably fine, probably too many loud noises over the years . . .

On the m48+, there is an independent audio control slider that allows the key clicks to be amplified. Not a huge issue, but just passing it on.
Prairie
 
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iOS 7 look

Postby Prairie » Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:57 am

Sadly after reconfiguring my keyboard, I have lost the ability to hold the key down instead of using the alt-key. Only unusual thing I remember doing was uploading "My Skin". Not sure what I did. I've tried turning it on/off of course.
Prairie
 
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iOS 7 look

Postby Prairie » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:18 am

Problem was that I deleted the @alternate key. It was working until I power-cycled the app. Then holding down a key for the alternate function would not work until I put back the original @alternate key.
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